Barenboim, Flagstad, Beethoven, Wagner, WEDO, Imitation, and Interpretation

🙂 Voice >
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(Updated on JULY 27, 2009)

Whose Beethoven is this?

I hear something on the radio. It says that this is Barenboim version of Beethoven.
I know this musician. Not only he is imitating Barenboim, this music also has no problem to keep his professional career as Barenboim’s something. Some call it sensitive or lyrical.

It takes couple of measures to figure out. He doesn’t concentrate on every each note. He doesn’t take every each note into the core of composer. It is as if he is running over the notes. Besides, the sound itself is aggressive, yet the music itself sounds somewhat natural. Aggressive sound requires different tempo. Then, I hear his orchestra members struggling through different concept of sound. This orchestra is not yet ready to accompany this aggressive sound, but they survived after all. The result. The soloist sounds like ‘I-never-fail-in-technique’ or ‘Music-is-the-easiest-job’. Will his orchestra welcome his music and follow it or refuse it next time he is invited again?

Now, what’s the problem?

This musician is not the problem. He is not the only one. In fact, this is the very characteristics of Mehta’s IPO in these days and most Members of Bashkirova-Gang. (Basically, this is Young Mehta. But it takes time to analyze Mehta’s everything, even if result is always same, because this guy has been involved in so many performances only to destroy everything.) Then, hundreds of thousands of NO-real talents want to imitate this performance and are gathering around Barenboim pretending to worship his music. (In fact, how many piano students actually respect Pianist Barenboim and buy his recordings? Curious… Whenever FOLKS tried to persuade me to give up this work, their reason was that the Pianist Barenboim was gone long ago.) But still, this can’t be the problem. This is their business and they insist that they have their own fan-clubs.

Please check
🙂 From Italy-Belcanto > Barenboim and La Scala
🙂 Berlusconi’s Minor-Scandal, Barenboim’s Cairo-Scandal, and Salzburg Festival (Jun 13 – Jul 1, 2009)
(Updated on JUNE 25, 2009)
JIWON: Please ask Gidon Kremer to publish Bashkirova’s lifelong performance schedule. How many GREAT maestros accompanied this whore? Among them, how many maestros were running their own opera/symphony orchestras? Among them, how many maestros have offered Maestro Barenboim good opportunities to communicate with their employees? How many maestros have accompanied Pianist Barenboim in their headquarters? NONE! They were only busy at stealing Barenboim’s hard working.
But then… not only those human trashes took advantage of Barenboim’s miserable life since du Pre’s wheelchair period, they also blocked all the entrances to Barenboim and then allowed this conductor to play for their members only or only allowed Pianist Barenboim to accept the invitation into their members’ headquarters, where local politicians would welcome Barenboim’s protégés. Barenboim’s only answer… “Thanks for filling my performance schedule. I was very lonely.” (…)

Still, those Soloists around Barenboim is not the problem. This is their business. Their ORCHESTRA is the problem. By sticking around Barenboim, they have changed Barenboim’s orchestra sound. Or Barenboim is allowed to play with those ensembles only. Then their IMITATION becomes INTERPRETATION. Then Barenboim is forced to follow it. Unlike those, Pianist Barenboim is not born to play this aggressive sound, and therefore, Enrique’s son sounds ugly or hasty or very unstable. Pianist Barenboim doesn’t sound natural. Conductor Barenboim sounds impotent. While all those IMITATORS achieve commercial success with their natural music, only Barenboim is dying.


When was my first time to hear Kirsten Flagstad? Ten years ago? I heard Kirsten Flagstad on the radio. Since then, how many times have I listened to Kirsten Flagstad? Then… how many times did I have to change my opinion about this VOICE? Should I call her VOICE? Or do I want to call her DICTION?

The moment I heard this music, I was very disappointed.
I knew that this was a legendary diva. I knew that this name meant Wagner. I frequently read that Wagnerian voices are HUGE or FAT or UGLY or… physically I mean. I still remember how much I was in shock when I watched the FAT Venus. She was topless, indeed. Was I in the Goethe Institut? 20 years later, I am still curious who that lady was, because I remember nothing about music but her nudity only. (Was it half-nudity?) While all my friends were busy at discussing about Music of Wagner, I only thought of that FAT Venus. I think I can recognize her if I watch this film again. ^.*

THUS, I simply thought. Wagnerian Diva doesn’t have to sound great. The voice just has to be strong… very strong. But I still remember this voice, Kirsten Flagstad, and this is what used to bother me. Because I usually remember nothing unless something hooks me.

(Updated on JULY 28, 2009)

When was my second time? I don’t remember. I heard it again, anyway… probably on the radio. When was my third time? I don’t remember. How many times? I don’t remember. Meanwhile, I’ve been reading Forumites, watching videos about this VOICE.

Since I am not a German,
Since Kirsten Flagstad herself is not a German,
Especially since Waltraud Meier and all her supporters are proud of Meier’s CLEAR German Diction and it was the main reason of her commercial success in a place, where everybody was insulting Jewish Barenboim’s impotent conducting and ALL the foreign singers had no choice but to follow this vocal technique,

May I ask the German Readers something? Is this German Diction accurate? Kirsten Flagstad’s Wagner, I mean…

To my ears, this German Diction doesn’t sound enough clear. Rather, it sounds little bit dumb-or-… Am I listening something another?

Since Meier’s prostitution, CLEAR German diction has been the ruler of Wagnerian Society. They have never listened to the VOICE. They only cared for the DICTION. Then how come this can be appreciated as something legendary?

My private KIRSTEN FLAGSTAD in chronological order:

1. The first moment I heard this music, the VOICE disappointed me. More exactly, it disappointed my expectation.

2. I watched her SINGING. WOW! What a BODY LANGUAGE! What a VOICE! A lovely-looking female was singing with her entire body. When did I watch this kind of lovely singing scene? I did watch some legendary opera productions or legendary singers’ docu film. And I always disappointed with their outlook. (Some females were famous for their absolute beauty.) Not only they always look inferior to the movie stars or look very old-fashioned, but also their voice doesn’t hook me as much as it did through the recordings. (I seriously recommend innocent kids NOT to watch Fritz Wunderlich or Tito Schipa. *.*)

3. How come I can’t hear this VOICE on the radio? Is it dull? Is it too dark? Or what?

4. It was during Waltraud Meier’ s WEDO 2008. Their Norwegian concert was not a normal happening. It was a planned event. When I started my insulting this VOICE, Meier boasted that her Isolde was ‘Above-Flagstad’ but quickly deleted this sentence from her homepage. Then she was able to make me give up my computer work. When I resumed it, Meier wanted to prove her boating again… this time with Flagstad’s Norwegian Fans. What was the result? Please ask the Creator of FACEBOOK: Kirsten Flagstad Appreciation Group. Please ask this Norwegian guy who is his favorite Wagnerian Diva. Waltraud Meier or Kirstin Flagstad? No matter what, I had to contact Flagstad Society in Norway to report Meier’s real intention. Was it I’m not sure. There was one very interesting material about her SINGING. A perfect example of singing muscles. It was young Flagstad.

5. Time to remember One Forum Legend from Houston, Texas. (I find that this guy hit the forum again months ago.) Please ask him how to analyze the relationship between Kirsten Flagstad and her Isolde. Isolde or Isolde’s mother. Please ask him how to analyze the relationship between Richard Wagner and his Isolde. ‘Great Wagner’s Inferior Isolde’. This analysis can go further, in my view. ‘Inferior Wagner’s Inferior Isolde’, or ‘Inferior Wagner’s Great Isolde’, or ‘Great Wagner’s Great Isolde’.

6. Now, can you understand why I was destined to be disappointed with Flagstad’s old, dying VOICE from the commercial recordings? But still, she was singing with her entire body. Still, there was something that constantly hooked my attention. What was it?

Please check
🙂 From Dear-Arab-Readers > Section: Egypt-Normalization > Barenboim’s First Visit to Egypt on April 16, 2009
🙂 Barenboim’s First Visit to Egypt: Part 3C (May 13-20, 2009)
Waltraud Meier Blog: Ninth symphony of Beethoven: “Alle Menschen werden Bruder” (all become brothers) Apr 28, 2009 / By Glauce Kalisch, who claims to be a Brazilian in Paris

🙂 Barenboim’s First Visit to Egypt: Part 3D (May 20 – Jun 3, 2009)
Barenboim to Berlin Media: Ich finde das ganz lustig… mit Elena Dec 24, 2005 / By German Media
Youtube: Extrait DVD Daniel Barenboim 50 years on stage (with Waltraud Meier) Posted on Apr 30, 2009 but released on Feb 22, 2005 / By glaukalisch who joined this place on June 06, 2006.
Youtube: Extrait Symphony n°9 Beethoven D.Barenboim, W.Meier, and WEDO May 12, 2009 / By glaukalisch (Basically, Youtube has a better clip to show the most comical scene from the WEDO members.)
Youtube: Anything about Waltraud Meier and Fidelio

Waltraud Meier is boasting something. Diction and Phrasing. Especially with the WEDO members, Meier wants to show that she is doing something in front of Barenboim. Please check her partners, their faces or standing postures, which try to stay away from Barenboim’s hard working Meier. Have you ever seen more comical scene than this one? The funniest story here is that Meier’s voice sounds even dirtier than the usual Meier because… Then it was Meier herself or her Brazilian fan, who wanted EVERYBODY to watch it and listen to it. Isn’t that perfect?

Please look.
For Waltraud Meier, this German Diction is the easiest job. Making a certain, Barenboim-like phrasing is the easiest job. The easier Meier sounds, the more proud she looks. The more joyful Meier looks, the dirtier she sounds. It is as if this VOICE is ruling every each note with very special diction techniques.

Unfortunately, there are not enough materials for Young or Mature Melchior on Youtube. And I am just allowed to compare what I hear on the radio and what I watch on Youtube.

Whenever I hear Lauritz Melchior and Kirsten Flagstad, I used to think that this is why HELDENTENOR should be the only professional term in the Wagnerian Music Drama. Lauritz Melchior’s female partner doesn’t sound as great as he does. Kirsten Flagstad sounds like an accessory to prove Richard Wagner’s male chauvinism. But whenever I watch Lauritz Melchior and Kirsten Flagstad, I definitely choose Kirsten Flagstad as the best VOICE in the world of Wagner or in the world of Opera… next to Callas, who also uses her entire body to ring her VOICE. This BEAUTY beats all her male rivals with her VOICE and her attractive SINGING OUTLOOK doesn’t look like old-fashioned.

Thanks to my initial disappointment, I had to track down her performances in chronological order to check her Singing Diction.
Is there any difference?

what hooked me was her Diction even while her old, dying VOICE was constantly disappointing my expectation.
she was concentrating on every each note. It is as if singing every each note is the most difficult job in her life. Then everybody knows how much she openly expressed her desire to retire from the stage whenever FOLKS encouraged her worldwide performance schedule.

🙂 From Dear-Arab-Readers > Section: Egypt-Normalization > Barenboim’s First Visit to Egypt on April 16, 2009
🙂 Barenboim’s First Visit to Egypt: Part 3C (May 13-20, 2009)
(Updated on MAY 15-18, 2009)
Waltraud Meier’s Big-Mouth in Spain May 15, 2009
(…) in Seville in August with Barenboim. Meier says she is at the peak of her career both technically in terms of knowledge. “I have reached MATURITY and this is reflected in my way of addressing the various characters. (…)

Please compare Meier’s Big-Mouth with Flagstad’s shy attitude toward her MUSIC, which was unanimously praised and encouraged by FOLKS. Not surprisingly, it is FOUR days before La Scala’s Lissner failed in Salzburg on May 19, 2009 (… after failing in Berlin…).
YOUTUBE: We offer quite recordings on FRITZ WUNDERLICH singing AN DIE MUSIK

I don’t know how to analyze Kirsten Flagstad’s Singing German Diction. I only hear the exactly same mentality from Youtube: Fritz Wunderlich singing ‘An Die Musik’. This DIVA, this VOICE is worshiping German language, worshiping every each note/diction while singing. This is the only thing I can write.

Is it possible to imitate?

Whenever I hear Legendary Performer X, I hear what makes him legendary. I also hear what is his weakest point or the end of his limited talent. No one is born perfect. A Greater God never allowed perfect human beings. His allowing a great talent frequently means that he is born with both the palms and the back of his hand.

How come everybody sticking around Legendary Performer X enjoys imitating dying characteristics of his MUSIC instead of picking up the secret of his talent? Simply because it is easy to imitate?

Another Legendary Performer Y, who can be considered to be X’s only successor, usually comes from another world. He learns the secret of Legendary X from other musicians.

How many females have been imitating Kirsten Flagstad?
What has been their result?

this is exactly how those Berliner Staatskapelle musicians have been training their Arab Youngsters, all of whom successfully turned into ‘Garbage & Sh*ts’.

🙂 From Spain-SIC > El alma de Granada… recuperar al Barenboim pianista…
🙂 Andalucian Regional Cultural Minister & Barenboim’s WEDO 2009
(…) Within a project that the Minister of Culture of the Junta of Andalusia, Rosa Torres, has described as “training” the young participants in the 2009 edition of the West-Eastern Divan Workshop classes will be instrumental and orchestral teacher of the Staatskapelle Berlin, in the town sevillana Cell. In addition, Rosa Torres has stressed during the presentation of the tour for the media side of the “cohabitation” with the project not only through music, but promoting “debate” and “discussion” in an environment where musicians developed and tested parts of their summer tour. (…)

THE GREATEST CULTURAL MINISTER OF SPAIN, (… Adalucian regional cultural minister, I mean…), promised ‘POLITICAL DEBATE’ after reading my Arab report about how much Arab professional music society and even the innocent youngsters don’t welcome this happening. Still, no one’s business, because I’ve NEVER seen any orchestra members like this. Usually, when they start this issue, it means that they gave up their musical side. Already now, those Spanish Arab musicians’ reputation is not quite good in their birthplaces.

What are those Berliner Staatskapelle musicians going to teach their Arab youngsters this year? How to imitate Barenboim’s favorite phrasing? Celibidache’s or du Pre’s or what?

Then, why do you think those Spanish Arab musicians are having a hard time when they return to their birthplaces? Altogether in Spain and during their international tour, their ensemble technique sounds quite reasonable, unless you compare this music with another ensemble at the same time at the same place. The problem occurs after they return to their country. Is it because they are too pure to survive in such an inferior place like Arab world?

How many times have I written this? When NO-talent and REAL-talent make the same melody together, they don’t use the same part of their physical ability. They want to play the same interpretation, but they don’t get along. Either one should die.

Inside the WEDO, real talents are likely dying. But outside the WEDO, the opposite things are happening. Wherever you go, no matter how inferior its artistic quality is, one should pass a certain audition to join the professional orchestra. I already wrote how high individual members’ artistic quality is wherever you go… especially the strings. The reason why those high members sound so inferior like this or that was that NO conductors are interested in achieving their string section sound from those individuals. Do you think those Spanish Arab youngsters can pass this qualification? If they happen to meet their kind of musicians, their interpretation-or-imitation doesn’t work. They have to forget what they learned in Spain.

This is why it is dangerous to teach music students, especially younger ones, how to imitate a certain interpretation, without teaching how to develop their talent in tone-production or quality of voice, and giving them a freedom to interpret their own performance all by themselves.

This has been the impossible dream for this Spanish workshop, as a matter of fact. This is why I kept insulting that the entire Audition process was a BULLSH*T. 500 candidates this year only to allow all those OLD members to re-join WEDO 2009?

Wasn’t it the Jewish Education System or from TALMUD?
“Give your kid a fish, he eats for a day; teach him to fish, he eats for a lifetime.”

There are other quotes:
“When you teach your son, you teach your son’s son.”
“Who is a wise man? He who learns of all men.”
“A quotation at the RIGHT moment is like bread to the famished.”

Where did Barenboim learn how to interpret his favorite Music? When did he start learning? Wasn’t it after his father taught him all the basics about music?

Listen to Furtwangler’s performances during his late years. His interpretation is becoming icy and icy, or less and less romantic, and more and more direct. Yet he hardly allows out-of-tuned ensemble techniques. Why do you think so? Until he faces his death, he is training his members.

Just sick of all those trashes.

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JULY 25, 2009
By the way, do you know where the NYT-Forum guy is now? (Is his name Calvert?) I seriously recommend him to write a book about his analysis of the voices. Since some ago, I wanted to write about Flagstad, but too tired. Today, I heard Lily Pons and think about the same thing again. Hope to find time to write this. I will write. In sum, I can NEVER understand why Meier herself and all her fans are proud of this cheapest German diction. (‘disgusting’ in those bimbo-days and ‘cheapest’ in these dictator-days) Calvert was right… and the more I hear Flagstad, the more I think of her German diction, instead of her voice. Bye.

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